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RYXI > FreeBSD > FreeBSD copyrighted? 18 October 2005 00:25:01
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FreeBSD copyrighted?

OttawaTrade 18 October 2005 00:25:01
 I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is
I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the
pre-configured ISO.

Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?

Another way is just to use a configured setup file to set up firewall,
username, add apache, php, msql...


Add comment
Colin Percival 12 October 2005 09:53:00 [ permanent link ]
 OttawaTrade <speediercoREMOVE_T­HIS@yahoo.com> wrote:> I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD.

Yes, absolutely.
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?

No, quite the opposite -- FreeBSD is much more free.

Colin Percival


Add comment
Matthew X. Economou 12 October 2005 15:16:05 [ permanent link ]
 
"OttawaTrade" == OttawaTrade <speediercoREMOVE_T­HIS@yahoo.com> writes:

OttawaTrade> I want to load the pre-configured ISO.

This prompts a good question: How does one go about scripting a
FreeBSD installation, like you can do with Windows (sysprep, RIS,
etc.), Linux (Kickstart), or Solaris (JumpStart)? I would like to
have a PXE-bootable installer kick off an automated installation plus
a script I provide, much like I do already with RIS.

Any suggestions?

Best wishes,
Matthew

--
jsoffron: I'm generally pretty high on national defense...
Mr. Bad Example: Careful...it's a gateway policy. Before you know it,
you'll be mainlining the hard stuff like trade agreements.
jsoffron: Too late...I've been freebasing Nafta all day... Sweet,
sweet NAFTA.
- As seen on Slashdot
Add comment
Michel Talon 12 October 2005 15:56:52 [ permanent link ]
 Matthew X. Economou <xenophon+usenet@ir­tnog.org> wrote:> >>>>> "OttawaTrade" == OttawaTrade <speediercoREMOVE_T­HIS@yahoo.com> writes:>
OttawaTrade> I want to load the pre-configured ISO.>
This prompts a good question: How does one go about scripting a> FreeBSD installation, like you can do with Windows (sysprep, RIS,> etc.), Linux (Kickstart), or Solaris (JumpStart)? I would like to> have a PXE-bootable installer kick off an automated installation plus> a script I provide, much like I do already with RIS.>
Any suggestions?

man sysinstall?

spends 3/4 of the man page to explain scripted installations>
Best wishes,> Matthew>

--

Michel TALON

Add comment
Jpd 12 October 2005 17:44:42 [ permanent link ]
 Begin <ufyr7kk1m.fsf@irtn­og.org>
On 2005-10-12, Matthew X. Economou <xenophon+usenet@ir­tnog.org> wrote:>>>>>> "OttawaTrade" == OttawaTrade <speediercoREMOVE_T­HIS@yahoo.com> writes:> This prompts a good question: How does one go about scripting a> FreeBSD installation, [...]

Apart from other suggestions already made; if you understand the
process, you can do it yourself. That is, fdisk/disklabel/new­fs,
then mount the structure and roll the distributions over it. See the
shellscripts that come with the distributions. They really are just
split(1) tarballs. After that, chroot(1) to the new structure and
pkg_add the packages you want, and fix the configuration. Done.


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
Add comment
Heiko Recktenwald 12 October 2005 21:59:46 [ permanent link ]
 OttawaTrade wrote:> I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is> I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the> pre-configured ISO.>
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?

Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.


H.

mpegurl.blog.de>
Another way is just to use a configured setup file to set up firewall,> username, add apache, php, msql...>
Add comment
Bill Vermillion 13 October 2005 02:55:01 [ permanent link ]
 In article <dijmn0$lkl$2@newsr­eader3.netcologne.de­>,
Heiko Recktenwald <me@privacy.net> wrote:>OttawaTrade wrote:>> I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is>> I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the>> pre-configured ISO.
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?
Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.

The copyright under BSD basically says you can do anything you want
as long as you retain the original copyright statements.

There is no restriction other than that. The add-ons which have
some of the GPL variants [and there are SO MANY] aren't part of the
base-os and you have to follow those.

Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
Add comment
Rudolf Polzer 13 October 2005 10:17:51 [ permanent link ]
 Â»Bill Vermillion« <bv@wjv.com> wrote:> In article <dijmn0$lkl$2@newsr­eader3.netcologne.de­>,> Heiko Recktenwald <me@privacy.net> wrote:> >OttawaTrade wrote:> >> I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is> >> I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the> >> pre-configured ISO.>
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?>
Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.>
The copyright under BSD basically says you can do anything you want> as long as you retain the original copyright statements. >
There is no restriction other than that. The add-ons which have> some of the GPL variants [and there are SO MANY] aren't part of the> base-os and you have to follow those.

So the best way would be to only use GPL/LGPL/BSD licensed stuff and
use the compatibility of these licenses, that is, just do so as if
everything were licensed under the GPL.

That means: documenting all changes and releasing full source - even of
the BSD stuff. That would be a good service anyway.


--
Elfen Lied ist gewaltverherrlichen­d. Vor allem, was da so alles brutalst
niedergemetzelt, grausamst in Stücke gerissen und bei lebendigem Leibe
zerschnitten, zersägt, zerhackt wird... es wäre nicht übertrieben, zu
sagen: "Boldly splitting German composites that no man had split before"
Add comment
Bill Vermillion 14 October 2005 04:35:00 [ permanent link ]
 In article <slrndks2gv.ngb.use­net@message-id.durch­null.ath.cx>,
Rudolf Polzer <nospam_rpolzer@nos­pammail.net> wrote:>»Bill Vermillion« <bv@wjv.com> wrote:>> In article <dijmn0$lkl$2@newsr­eader3.netcologne.de­>,>> Heiko Recktenwald <me@privacy.net> wrote:>> >OttawaTrade wrote:>> >> I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is>> >> I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the>> >> pre-configured ISO.>>
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?>>
Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.>>
The copyright under BSD basically says you can do anything you want>> as long as you retain the original copyright statements. >>
There is no restriction other than that. The add-ons which have>> some of the GPL variants [and there are SO MANY] aren't part of the>> base-os and you have to follow those.
So the best way would be to only use GPL/LGPL/BSD licensed stuff and>use the compatibility of these licenses, that is, just do so as if>everything were licensed under the GPL.

Well I'm not exactly of fan of the GPL. The BSD style of license
is so similar to all the sources that I used to see in
comp.sources.unix from years and years ago. IOW - here's the
code, do what you want, but leave my name in it.
That means: documenting all changes and releasing full source - even of>the BSD stuff. That would be a good service anyway.

Some use the BSD in proprietary commercial products so they don't
release the source, nor do they want to. It would kill their
business. I have no problem with this in the ones I've seen given
the high quality of the code and the reliability of the company
involved.

The 'best way' is the one that works for you.

Bill


--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
Add comment
Jpd 14 October 2005 04:55:07 [ permanent link ]
 Begin <IoBt8C.15CF@wjv.co­m>
On 2005-10-14, Bill Vermillion <bv@wjv.com> wrote:> Some use the BSD in proprietary commercial products so they don't> release the source, nor do they want to. It would kill their> business. I have no problem with this in the ones I've seen given> the high quality of the code and the reliability of the company> involved.

Let me chime in with a comment that sometimes code _does_ come back,
eg netgraph, courtesy Whistle Communications Inc. Maybe something
spiffy will come back from juniper, who knows. :-)­


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
Add comment
Rudolf Polzer 14 October 2005 08:05:01 [ permanent link ]
 Â»Bill Vermillion« <bv@wjv.com> wrote:> In article <slrndks2gv.ngb.use­net@message-id.durch­null.ath.cx>,> Rudolf Polzer <nospam_rpolzer@nos­pammail.net> wrote:> >»Bill Vermillion« <bv@wjv.com> wrote:> >> In article <dijmn0$lkl$2@newsr­eader3.netcologne.de­>,> >> Heiko Recktenwald <me@privacy.net> wrote:> >> >OttawaTrade wrote:> >> >> I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is> >> >> I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the> >> >> pre-configured ISO.> >>
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?> >>
Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.> >>
The copyright under BSD basically says you can do anything you want> >> as long as you retain the original copyright statements. > >>
There is no restriction other than that. The add-ons which have> >> some of the GPL variants [and there are SO MANY] aren't part of the> >> base-os and you have to follow those.>
So the best way would be to only use GPL/LGPL/BSD licensed stuff and> >use the compatibility of these licenses, that is, just do so as if> >everything were licensed under the GPL.>
Well I'm not exactly of fan of the GPL. The BSD style of license> is so similar to all the sources that I used to see in> comp.sources.unix from years and years ago. IOW - here's the> code, do what you want, but leave my name in it.

That's true and I also usually prefer the (new) BSD license.
That means: documenting all changes and releasing full source - even of> >the BSD stuff. That would be a good service anyway.>
Some use the BSD in proprietary commercial products so they don't> release the source, nor do they want to. It would kill their> business. I have no problem with this in the ones I've seen given> the high quality of the code and the reliability of the company> involved.

Right.

But if you want to make a BSD distribution, you most likely want to
include gcc. And that one is under the GPL. Now if you distribute a
modified FreeBSD base system which still includes gcc as a part, it
MIGHT be required that you distribute that derived system under the GPL
if there is no clear separation between gcc and the rest. Same goes for
libreadline, libregex and libstdc++.


--
Elfen Lied ist gewaltverherrlichen­d. Vor allem, was da so alles brutalst
niedergemetzelt, grausamst in Stücke gerissen und bei lebendigem Leibe
zerschnitten, zersägt, zerhackt wird... es wäre nicht übertrieben, zu
sagen: "Boldly splitting German composites that no man had split before"
Add comment
Matthias Buelow 14 October 2005 08:54:18 [ permanent link ]
 Rudolf Polzer <usenet@durchnull.a­th.cx> wrote:
But if you want to make a BSD distribution, you most likely want to>include gcc. And that one is under the GPL. Now if you distribute a>modified FreeBSD base system which still includes gcc as a part, it>MIGHT be required that you distribute that derived system under the GPL>if there is no clear separation between gcc and the rest. Same goes for>libreadline, libregex and libstdc++.

That would be a very pathological case, and I don't think it could
be produced easily. I mean, you somehow would have to make the
entire FreeBSD (or at least large parts of it) link against readline
(GPL), or actually borrow substantial source code (from gcc).

mkb.
Add comment
Rudolf Polzer 14 October 2005 09:13:02 [ permanent link ]
 Â»Matthias Buelow« <mkb@incubus.de> wrote:> Rudolf Polzer <usenet@durchnull.a­th.cx> wrote:> >But if you want to make a BSD distribution, you most likely want to> >include gcc. And that one is under the GPL. Now if you distribute a> >modified FreeBSD base system which still includes gcc as a part, it> >MIGHT be required that you distribute that derived system under the GPL> >if there is no clear separation between gcc and the rest. Same goes for> >libreadline, libregex and libstdc++.>
That would be a very pathological case, and I don't think it could> be produced easily. I mean, you somehow would have to make the> entire FreeBSD (or at least large parts of it) link against readline> (GPL), or actually borrow substantial source code (from gcc).

Isn't it enough for the GPL to apply if you put GPL licensed stuff with
something else in one software package? Isn't this the very reason why
non-free software can't be put on the same CD as free software by Linux
distributions?


--
Elfen Lied ist gewaltverherrlichen­d. Vor allem, was da so alles brutalst
niedergemetzelt, grausamst in Stücke gerissen und bei lebendigem Leibe
zerschnitten, zersägt, zerhackt wird... es wäre nicht übertrieben, zu
sagen: "Boldly splitting German composites that no man had split before"
Add comment
Matthias Buelow 14 October 2005 09:19:14 [ permanent link ]
 Rudolf Polzer <usenet@durchnull.a­th.cx> wrote:
Isn't it enough for the GPL to apply if you put GPL licensed stuff with>something else in one software package?

Maybe you should read the GPL, instead of speculating.
Isn't this the very reason why>non-free software can't be put on the same CD as free software by Linux>distributions­?

In what way should that be the same?
I would think that what you label "non-free software" is excluded
because bundling is prohibited, or otherwise restricted. A typical
example from the FreeBSD world would be the (FreeBSD-patched) Sun
JDK.

mkb.
Add comment
Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet 14 October 2005 09:49:37 [ permanent link ]
 In article <slrndkuj3e.khu.use­net@message-id.durch­null.ath.cx>,
Rudolf Polzer <nospam_rpolzer@nos­pammail.net> wrote:>Isn't it enough for the GPL to apply if you put GPL licensed stuff with>something else in one software package? Isn't this the very reason why>non-free software can't be put on the same CD as free software by Linux>distributions­?

No.

grep 'mere aggregation' GPLv2

Usually the non-free software is put on a separate disc because
there are bundling restrictions in _those_ licenses. Or they want
one disc that everyone can distribute freely, and one disc that
is more restricted. I know Debian does it like that, with their
non-free section.

Arnoud



--
Arnoud Engelfriet, Dutch & European patent attorney - Speaking only for myself
Patents, copyright and IPR explained for techies: http://www.iusmenti­s.com/
Add comment
Rudolf Polzer 14 October 2005 13:15:32 [ permanent link ]
 Â»Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet« <galactus@stack.nl>­ wrote:> In article <slrndkuj3e.khu.use­net@message-id.durch­null.ath.cx>,> Rudolf Polzer <nospam_rpolzer@nos­pammail.net> wrote:> >Isn't it enough for the GPL to apply if you put GPL licensed stuff with> >something else in one software package? Isn't this the very reason why> >non-free software can't be put on the same CD as free software by Linux> >distributions?>
No.>
grep 'mere aggregation' GPLv2

It isn't mere aggregation any more if you included e.g. GNU ls in the
base system as /bin/ls. And it isn't mere aggregation any more if a
Windows installer package installs both Apache and a HP printer
management program collection. Maybe it isn't even mere aggregation any
more when FreeBSD includes gcc in the base system without making it
different distribution sets.


--
Elfen Lied ist gewaltverherrlichen­d. Vor allem, was da so alles brutalst
niedergemetzelt, grausamst in Stücke gerissen und bei lebendigem Leibe
zerschnitten, zersägt, zerhackt wird... es wäre nicht übertrieben, zu
sagen: "Boldly splitting German composites that no man had split before"
Add comment
Michel Talon 14 October 2005 15:56:47 [ permanent link ]
 Rudolf Polzer <usenet@durchnull.a­th.cx> wrote:>
It isn't mere aggregation any more if you included e.g. GNU ls in the> base system as /bin/ls. And it isn't mere aggregation any more if a> Windows installer package installs both Apache and a HP printer> management program collection. Maybe it isn't even mere aggregation any> more when FreeBSD includes gcc in the base system without making it> different distribution sets.>

You are wrong. All your example are mere aggregation. The only case you must
put your software under GPL is when it is linked with a GPL library, which
explicitely must reside in the same address space. There is special exemption
for the kernel, which as you know resides in the address space of each
process. In particular if you have a program which communicates by sockets
with a GPL program it is not contaminated. And gcc doesn't
contaminate anything. All these discussions are years old, and there is good
reason why FreeBSD ship their system as it is. They have carefully thinked
how to distribute a BSD licensed software.

--

Michel TALON

Add comment
Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet 14 October 2005 18:53:55 [ permanent link ]
 In article <slrndkv1a4.3k3.use­net@message-id.durch­null.ath.cx>,
Rudolf Polzer <nospam_rpolzer@nos­pammail.net> wrote:>»Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet« <galactus@stack.nl>­ wrote:>> In article <slrndkuj3e.khu.use­net@message-id.durch­null.ath.cx>,>> Rudolf Polzer <nospam_rpolzer@nos­pammail.net> wrote:>> >Isn't it enough for the GPL to apply if you put GPL licensed stuff with>> >something else in one software package? Isn't this the very reason why>> >non-free software can't be put on the same CD as free software by Linux>> >distributions?>>
No.>>
grep 'mere aggregation' GPLv2>
It isn't mere aggregation any more if you included e.g. GNU ls in the>base system as /bin/ls.

That _is_ mere aggregation. No derivative work of GNU ls is created
by installing it as /bin/ls. The CD containing FreeBSD and GNU ls
is a *collective work* but not a derivative work. And the GPL only
restricts the creation of derivative works ("works based on the
Program").

Here's what the authors of the GPL have to say about that:

What is the difference between "mere aggregation" and "combining two
modules into one program"?
Mere aggregation of two programs means putting them side by
side on the same CD-ROM or hard disk. We use this term in the
case where they are separate programs, not parts of a single
program. In this case, if one of the programs is covered by the
GPL, it has no effect on the other program.

http://www.gnu.org/­licenses/gpl-faq.htm­l#MereAggregation

Arnoud


--
Arnoud Engelfriet, Dutch & European patent attorney - Speaking only for myself
Patents, copyright and IPR explained for techies: http://www.iusmenti­s.com/
Add comment
David Magda 15 October 2005 02:19:10 [ permanent link ]
 Rudolf Polzer <usenet@durchnull.a­th.cx> writes:
But if you want to make a BSD distribution, you most likely want to> include gcc. And that one is under the GPL. Now if you distribute a> modified FreeBSD base system which still includes gcc as a part, it> MIGHT be required that you distribute that derived system under the> GPL if there is no clear separation between gcc and the rest. Same> goes for libreadline, libregex and libstdc++.

Anyone know how TenDRA (a BSD-licensed compiler) is doing?

:)­

--
David Magda <dmagda at ee.ryerson.ca>
Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under
the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well
under the new. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, _The Prince_, Chapter VI
Add comment
Torfinn Ingolfsen 15 October 2005 10:59:48 [ permanent link ]
 David Magda wrote:> Anyone know how TenDRA (a BSD-licensed compiler) is doing?

Well, the website is alive at least: http://www.tendra.o­rg/
(but I guess you knew that already)
:-)­
--
Torfinn Ingolfsen,
Norway
Add comment
Heiko Recktenwald 15 October 2005 18:27:50 [ permanent link ]
 Bill Vermillion wrote:>>>I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is>>>I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the>>>pre-configure­d ISO.>
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?>
Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.>
The copyright under BSD basically says you can do anything you want

Well, what is "copyright"?

If it is the users "right to make copies", then it is what the copyright
owner allows him to do = licence.

But in general, I think copyright is the "right of the owner to decide".
To give the user a licence. Insofar copyright and licence are not the same.


H.
as long as you retain the original copyright statements. >
There is no restriction other than that. The add-ons which have> some of the GPL variants [and there are SO MANY] aren't part of the> base-os and you have to follow those.>
Bill
Add comment


Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet 15 October 2005 22:13:53 [ permanent link ]
 In article <dir7do$h$1@newsrea­der3.netcologne.de>,­
Heiko Recktenwald <me@privacy.net> wrote:>If it is the users "right to make copies", then it is what the copyright>owner allows him to do = licence.>
But in general, I think copyright is the "right of the owner to decide".>To give the user a licence. Insofar copyright and licence are not the same.

Copyright is the right of the creator to _authorize_ copying
and distribution. Such an authorization is called a license.

http://www.iusmenti­s.com/copyright/cras­hcourse/

Arnoud



--
Arnoud Engelfriet, Dutch & European patent attorney - Speaking only for myself
Patents, copyright and IPR explained for techies: http://www.iusmenti­s.com/
Add comment
Bill Vermillion 18 October 2005 00:25:01 [ permanent link ]
 In article <dir7do$h$1@newsrea­der3.netcologne.de>,­
Heiko Recktenwald <me@privacy.net> wrote:>Bill Vermillion wrote:>>>>I wonder if it is possible to make a distribution of FreeBSD. The reason is>>>>I found many people request hardened web hosting OS. I want to load the>>>>pre-configur­ed ISO.>>
Is FreeBSD much less free than Linux so nobody dare to modify it?>>
Well, both are protected by copyright, but the licenses are different.>>

The copyright under BSD basically says you can do anything you want
Well, what is "copyright"?
If it is the users "right to make copies", then it is what the>copyright owner allows him to do = licence.
But in general, I think copyright is the "right of the owner>to decide" To give the user a licence. Insofar copyright and>licence are not the same.


Copyright gives the author/owner the right to control their
product, in any way they wish. This includes the right to license
the product - which is different than selling the product.

It's a real quagmire out there.

Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com
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RYXI > FreeBSD > FreeBSD copyrighted? 18 October 2005 00:25:01
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