on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a bow. i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer in. dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of compresson on peaks.
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does any one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?
on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a bow.> i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer in.> dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of compresson> on peaks.>
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does any> one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?>
Maybe a peaky upper midrange peak? I think i would have tried my channel strip sweepable EQ on cut at 3 or 4 down and swept the frequency control to see if i could have narrowed down the offender and tweak it from there. Sounds like you did what you could. How tight were you miking it?
Bob
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George Gleason 25 December 2005 21:43:47 [ permanent link ]
"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message news:8ZqdnVIix5WbQjPeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...> on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a bow.> i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer in.> dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of compresson> on peaks.>
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does
one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?>
if you have the luxury have the player bow the instrument while you listen closely in closely I mean both with attention and for a distance of around 6 inches find the sweet spot and(closer) mic it there otherwise you will need a parametric eq to sweep out the offensive harshenss, IMO generally in the 6 to 8K region George
"Bob Urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message news:1135534586_12201@spool6-east.superfeed.net...>
TimPerry wrote:>
on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a
bow.> > i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer in.> > dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of compresson> > on peaks.> >
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does
one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?> >
Maybe a peaky upper midrange peak? I think i would have tried my channel> strip sweepable EQ on cut at 3 or 4 down and swept the frequency control> to see if i could have narrowed down the offender and tweak it from> there. Sounds like you did what you could. How tight were you miking it?>
Bob
at first about 3 feet shared with the viola. the 50 pc choir became the predominant audio in the mix. i put the VX-10 at about 6 to 8 inches. overall it wasn't bad but sounded raspy in solo. could be that i just didnt like the sound the instrunment was producing.
i tried out my new joe meek JM-37 on choir center. i felt the results were superb even when soloists came up and sang under it.
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:43:47 GMT, "George Gleason" <tbmoas58@peoplepc.com> wrote:
"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message>news:8ZqdnVIix5WbQjPeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...>> on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a bow.>> i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer>in.>> dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of compresson>> on peaks.>>
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does>any>> one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?>>
if you have the luxury have the player bow the instrument while you listen>closely>in closely I mean both with attention and for a distance of around 6 inches>find the sweet spot and(closer) mic it there>otherwise you will need a parametric eq to sweep out the offensive>harshenss, IMO generally in the 6 to 8K region>George>
Yeah, this is a "me, too" post, but I want to support what George is saying. When a microphone is close to a big instrument like a bass, it can't pick up the sound of the whole instrument. You have to search for the best sound. Mike T.
"George Gleason" <tbmoas58@peoplepc.com> wrote in message newsLBrf.10214$nm.4191@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...>
"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message> news:8ZqdnVIix5WbQjPeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...> > on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a
bow.> > i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer> in.> > dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of compresson> > on peaks.> >
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does> any> > one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?> >
if you have the luxury have the player bow the instrument while you listen> closely> in closely I mean both with attention and for a distance of around 6
inches> find the sweet spot and(closer) mic it there> otherwise you will need a parametric eq to sweep out the offensive> harshenss, IMO generally in the 6 to 8K region> George> i had a sweepable mid but it did not seem to be any one specific frequency. could be that i have gotten too used to bass pluckers and when i meet one with a bow the shock was too much for me
the venue needs an acoustic consultant. i recommended you. its a hexagonal shaped hard-everything brick walls alternating with hardwood walls high vaulted ceiling. when you clap (when its empty) it takes what seems over a second for the ringing to die down.
the house system is a center cluster high up and 8 hanging delay speakers. Letrosonics automixer, Williams hearing assist system, Shure system controller, comtech amps. seating is about 2000 (i would guess).
one of the problems, it seems to me anyway, is the choir loft with organ is in the rear. when attempting to use the house PA is the audio source/main cluster/delay speakers are all fighting each other. when the sound gets done bouncing around the walls and finally gets to your ears its kinda muddy.
George Gleason 26 December 2005 00:31:21 [ permanent link ]
the venue needs an acoustic consultant. i recommended you. its a hexagonal> shaped hard-everything brick walls alternating with hardwood walls high> vaulted ceiling. when you clap (when its empty) it takes what seems over a> second for the ringing to die down.
The grandballroom in the Hotel Syracuse you would clap your hands and could count 11 seperate and distinct echos rt 60 in the 8 sec range>
the house system is a center cluster high up and 8 hanging delay speakers.> Letrosonics automixer, Williams hearing assist system, Shure system> controller, comtech amps.> seating is about 2000 (i would guess).
sounds like a Diversified(out of marcellus NY) installation
where is it I will discreetly stop by, maybe we can work together on it>
one of the problems, it seems to me anyway, is the choir loft with organ
in the rear. when attempting to use the house PA is the audio source/main> cluster/delay speakers are all fighting each other. when the sound gets
done> bouncing around the walls and finally gets to your ears its kinda muddy.
there are many solutions , most involve increasing the ratio of direct to reflected sound> George
Arny Krueger 26 December 2005 01:41:47 [ permanent link ]
"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message news:8ZqdnVIix5WbQjPeRVn-sw@adelphia.com
on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin> played with a bow. i initilly used an AT-3525 at a> distance then switched to a VX-10 closer in. dbxDDP on> insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of> compresson on peaks.
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to> hear.... but does any one have a trick to soften "edgy"> sounding strings?
(1) Trained ear. (2) Equalizer on that channel, preferably parametric.
TimPerry wrote:> "George Gleason" <tbmoas58@peoplepc.com> wrote in message> newsLBrf.10214$nm.4191@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...>
"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message>>news:8ZqdnVIix5WbQjPeRVn-sw@adelphia.com...>>
on a show last night i had a raspy sounding bass violin played with a>
bow.>
i initilly used an AT-3525 at a distance then switched to a VX-10 closer>>
in.>>
dbxDDP on insert 3:1 ratio and over easy and only about 2 dB of>
compresson>
on peaks.>>>
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to hear.... but does>>
one have a trick to soften "edgy" sounding strings?>>>
if you have the luxury have the player bow the instrument while you listen>>closely>>in closely I mean both with attention and for a distance of around 6>
inches>
find the sweet spot and(closer) mic it there>>otherwise you will need a parametric eq to sweep out the offensive>>harshenss, IMO generally in the 6 to 8K region>>George>>
i had a sweepable mid but it did not seem to be any one specific frequency.> could be that i have gotten too used to bass pluckers and when i meet one> with a bow the shock was too much for me >
the venue needs an acoustic consultant. i recommended you. its a hexagonal> shaped hard-everything brick walls alternating with hardwood walls high> vaulted ceiling. when you clap (when its empty) it takes what seems over a> second for the ringing to die down.>
the house system is a center cluster high up and 8 hanging delay speakers.> Letrosonics automixer, Williams hearing assist system, Shure system> controller, comtech amps.> seating is about 2000 (i would guess).>
one of the problems, it seems to me anyway, is the choir loft with organ is> in the rear. when attempting to use the house PA is the audio source/main> cluster/delay speakers are all fighting each other. when the sound gets done> bouncing around the walls and finally gets to your ears its kinda muddy.>
Well generically, you want the early reflections to be more diffuse by having irregular shapes rather than hard flat walls. How you accomplish that in your facility is open to debate. And in the rear facing walls, some absorption and diffusion to keep a hard back wall echo from coming back into the room. Maybe some hanging absorption in the ceiling. Sounds easy, but that's what the acoustician get the big bucks for. And they don't even get it all right. Our new Holland center here try's to do some of that, but the room was designed more for acoustic music than amplified music and is a little TOO hot. Even though it has adjustable acoustic panels and shell, its too easy to over power the room in amplified mode. Its a beautiful hall though. But NOT a proscenium theater, but designed as a concert hall.
Bob
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Peter Larsen 28 December 2005 01:36:10 [ permanent link ]
Arny Krueger wrote:
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to>> hear.... but does any one have a trick to soften "edgy">> sounding strings?
(1) Trained ear.> (2) Equalizer on that channel, preferably parametric.
Octave band is probably fine, lowering the 2kHz and the 8 kHz band some 4 dB may do, depending on the instrument, as several, also you, previously have suggested in the thread.
Frequency response is probably only one part of the perception issue, the crest factor of the instrument gets extreme when too close, and that suggests two more ploys that may be usable: 3:1 compression and a bit of reverb so as to reduce the crest factor. Also it is probably better to roll off the top above 10 kHz than have it reveal some "issues" with the loudspeakers used.
Kind regards & Seasons Greetings
Peter Larsen
-- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * *******************************************
"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message news:43B1C1DA.595F1C4F@mail.tele.dk...> Arny Krueger wrote:>
i know the mic is only gonna pick up what there is to> >> hear.... but does any one have a trick to soften "edgy"> >> sounding strings?>
(1) Trained ear.> > (2) Equalizer on that channel, preferably parametric.>
Octave band is probably fine, lowering the 2kHz and the 8 kHz band some> 4 dB may do, depending on the instrument, as several, also you,> previously have suggested in the thread.>
Frequency response is probably only one part of the perception issue,> the crest factor of the instrument gets extreme when too close, and that> suggests two more ploys that may be usable: 3:1 compression and a bit of> reverb so as to reduce the crest factor.
thanks for the tip, however i left the FX package behind for this one. i didn't think i'd need it based on past experience with this venue. i went for a "zone" approach this year instead of close micing everything. i was particularly impressed with the large diagram condensers on the kettledrums. in the past i close miced them with dynamics.
