I know this a pretty vague question, but which do folks think is a better sounding machine? Otari 1/2" 4-track (MX-5050) or Otari 1" 8-track (forgot the model # but its a big sucka on a rolling chassis with input strips in a vertical panel. # of tracks is somewhat irrelevant. I'm looking to use the machine as a tape saturation effect (I won't use the w***th word) for individual instruments or drum submixes.
Scott Dorsey 16 December 2005 17:02:07 [ permanent link ]
In article <1134711906.658773.326570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:>I know this a pretty vague question, but which do folks think is a>better sounding machine? Otari 1/2" 4-track (MX-5050) or Otari 1">8-track (forgot the model # but its a big sucka on a rolling chassis>with input strips in a vertical panel. # of tracks is somewhat>irrelevant. I'm looking to use the machine as a tape saturation effect>(I won't use the w***th word) for individual instruments or drum>submixes.
I don't know which 1" machine that is, since they made several matching that description. But the heads on the 5050 will saturate before modern tape formulations will, which probably defeats the purpose if you are trying to get tape overload sounds.
And, you can't get easy-to-overload red-oxide tape in 1/2" or 1" any more, just in 1/4". --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Gareth Magennis 16 December 2005 17:43:50 [ permanent link ]
"Daniel Fox" <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1134711906.658773.326570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...>I know this a pretty vague question, but which do folks think is a> better sounding machine? Otari 1/2" 4-track (MX-5050) or Otari 1"> 8-track (forgot the model # but its a big sucka on a rolling chassis> with input strips in a vertical panel. # of tracks is somewhat> irrelevant. I'm looking to use the machine as a tape saturation effect> (I won't use the w***th word) for individual instruments or drum> submixes.>
Dan Fox>
A friend of mine runs Protools and an Otari MTR 12, for exactly the same reasons that you want. Its a half inch 2 track. The EQ cards have record level adjustments for Bass, Mid and High, which he tweaks to get the particular sound he is after, and he is really pleased with the results. You may want to consider which machines out there have this capability and which don't.
I'm not really that up on tape machines, but my gut feeling is that 2 tracks may be more reliable and cheaper to run and maintain than multitracks? Maybe someone can clarify this.
Buster Mudd 16 December 2005 18:31:33 [ permanent link ]
Scott Dorsey wrote:> In article <1134711906.658773.326570@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,> Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:> >Otari 1"> >8-track (forgot the model # but its a big sucka on a rolling chassis> >with input strips in a vertical panel.>
I don't know which 1" machine that is, since they made several matching> that description.
Really? I don't think I ever saw an Otari 1" 8-track besides the model 7800.
maybe I am a litle nuts to want to keep and maintain a multi track machine just as a special effects box. Thanks for the info Scott about modern tape formulation and the 5050
Gareth Magennis wrote:> I'm not really that up on tape machines, but my gut feeling is that 2 tracks> may be more reliable and cheaper to run and maintain than multitracks?> Maybe someone can clarify this.
Well, we've got an Akai 1/4" 2 track Sound on Sound. If I can get the appropriate tape for this machine maybe it would be better suited to my purposes. Its alot smaller but it also only runs at 7 ips.
In article <1134748645.846596.79810@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mrivers@d-and-d.com says...>
Scott Dorsey wrote:>
I don't know which 1" machine that is, since they made several matching> > that description.>
He's probalby thinking of their first, the 7800, but I believe Otrai> made 1" 8-track heads for the MX-70 and almost certainly for the 1"> MX-80.>
MX7800,MX70,MX80,MTR 90II were all made in 1" 8 track. MX5050 I have only ever seen in 1\2" 8 track
Pip pip (& Bah Humbug y'all) -- Chris Notton Replace "nospam" with my surname to reply by email Sostituisca il "nospam" con il mio cognome per rispondere }<////(*>
Scott Dorsey 16 December 2005 19:22:15 [ permanent link ]
Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:>Well, we've got an Akai 1/4" 2 track Sound on Sound. If I can get the>appropriate tape for this machine maybe it would be better suited to my>purposes. Its alot smaller but it also only runs at 7 ips.
You sure it's not a quarter-track machine and not half track? If it one of the post-Roberts machines, it may need a JIS standard tape but the older Roberts machines will bias up most pre-406 tapes. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey 16 December 2005 19:23:06 [ permanent link ]
Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:>Scott Dorsey wrote:>
I don't know which 1" machine that is, since they made several matching>> that description.>
He's probalby thinking of their first, the 7800, but I believe Otrai>made 1" 8-track heads for the MX-70 and almost certainly for the 1">MX-80.
I'd put a thumbs down on the 7800, but the MX-70 is an entirely usable production machine. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey 16 December 2005 20:28:13 [ permanent link ]
Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:>Scott Dorsey wrote:>
I'd put a thumbs down on the 7800, but the MX-70 is an entirely usable>> production machine.>
But he doesn't WANT a production macine. He wants an effect processor.
Yeah, but I've never used a tape machine as an effect processor, really. Only as a production machine. So I can really only speak to that. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Gareth Magennis 16 December 2005 20:39:47 [ permanent link ]
"Daniel Fox" <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1134747450.782800.129930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> maybe I am a litle nuts to want to keep and maintain a multi track> machine just as a special effects box. Thanks for the info Scott about> modern tape formulation and the 5050>
Gareth Magennis wrote:>> I'm not really that up on tape machines, but my gut feeling is that 2 >> tracks>> may be more reliable and cheaper to run and maintain than multitracks?>> Maybe someone can clarify this.>
Well, we've got an Akai 1/4" 2 track Sound on Sound. If I can get the> appropriate tape for this machine maybe it would be better suited to my> purposes. Its alot smaller but it also only runs at 7 ips.>
Dan Fox>
Not sure how that would sound on an entire drum mix, you may want better quality.
I don't know which 1" machine that is, since they made several matching> > > that description.> >
He's probalby thinking of their first, the 7800, but I believe Otrai> > made 1" 8-track heads for the MX-70 and almost certainly for the 1"> > MX-80.
I just checked it out - Its the 7800 with tape timer and remote control boxes.
Also, I'm a doltz - the MX5050 i'm referring to is a 1/2" 2-track machine... So with more space per track on the 2-track does that swing the favor in its direction?
Well Scott i'm pretty ignorant about this area. Upon further inspection it is a Akai GX-4000DB. Its got 2 ins but the track selector is switchable between stereo, 1&4, and 2&3. So I guess it is quarter track. Does that mean that when in stereo mode it is using 1/8" per track or 1/16"? It does have Dolby NR, if that's any indication of its age.
Scott Dorsey 16 December 2005 21:53:01 [ permanent link ]
Daniel Fox <upryz1@gmail.com> wrote:>Well Scott i'm pretty ignorant about this area. Upon further>inspection it is a Akai GX-4000DB. Its got 2 ins but the track>selector is switchable between stereo, 1&4, and 2&3. So I guess it is>quarter track. Does that mean that when in stereo mode it is using>1/8" per track or 1/16"? It does have Dolby NR, if that's any>indication of its age.
In either stereo OR mono mode, it is using about 1/24" per track. Figure it's a quarter of a quarter inch, minus the guard band between tracks that prevents crosstalk. Quarter track was another attempt to make tape recording cheaper for consumer applications at a severe sound quality expense.
These are definitely new machines from the post-Roberts era. I don't think they can be set up for anything other than the JIS standard tapes, which are no longer made. The service manual will tell you for sure, though. It might be possible to modify for adjustable bias, but frankly quarter track consumer machines aren't worth the time to pick them up out of the dumpster. --scott
-- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
J. P. Morris 16 December 2005 23:07:39 [ permanent link ]
Scott Dorsey wrote:
In either stereo OR mono mode, it is using about 1/24" per track. Figure> it's a quarter of a quarter inch, minus the guard band between tracks> that prevents crosstalk. Quarter track was another attempt to make tape> recording cheaper for consumer applications at a severe sound quality> expense.>
These are definitely new machines from the post-Roberts era. I don't> think they can be set up for anything other than the JIS standard tapes,> which are no longer made. The service manual will tell you for sure,> though. It might be possible to modify for adjustable bias, but frankly> quarter track consumer machines aren't worth the time to pick them up> out of the dumpster.
..unless you want to play back 1/4" consumer tapes, of course. The Akai 4000 was one of the most successful domestic machines in the early 70s. The GX4000 variant is still quite desirable as it has the glass-ferrite heads which supposedly do not wear out.
I wouldn't want to use one for production work, though.
--scott>
-- JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org Anti-walkthroughs for Deus Ex, Thief and Ultima http://www.it-he.org Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org The DMFA radio series project http://dmfa.it-he.org d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB---- uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Gareth Magennis wrote:> A friend of mine runs Protools and an Otari MTR 12, for exactly the same > reasons that you want. Its a half inch 2 track. The EQ cards have record > level adjustments for Bass, Mid and High, which he tweaks to get the > particular sound he is after, and he is really pleased with the results. > You may want to consider which machines out there have this capability and > which don't.
Never seen a pro tape machine, or MTR-12, with a "Mid" record or playback level. You sure about that? Also, the "Bass" control is on playback, not record. The lo record EQ is usually fixed, but adjustable on playback.
Gareth Magennis 17 December 2005 19:22:57 [ permanent link ]
"EricK" <eric@raw-tracks.com> wrote in message news:fLWof.9274$ES.5171@fe05.lga...> Gareth Magennis wrote:>> A friend of mine runs Protools and an Otari MTR 12, for exactly the same >> reasons that you want. Its a half inch 2 track. The EQ cards have record >> level adjustments for Bass, Mid and High, which he tweaks to get the >> particular sound he is after, and he is really pleased with the results. >> You may want to consider which machines out there have this capability >> and which don't.>
Never seen a pro tape machine, or MTR-12, with a "Mid" record or playback > level. You sure about that? Also, the "Bass" control is on playback, not > record. The lo record EQ is usually fixed, but adjustable on playback.>
--
Well I'm just relaying what he told me. I actually got him to confirm at the time that it had Bass Mid and High, because it seemed surprising to me too. I'll check up on that though - he has the manual and full schematics.
Gareth Magennis wrote:> "EricK" <eric@raw-tracks.com> wrote in message >>Never seen a pro tape machine, or MTR-12, with a "Mid" record or playback >>level. You sure about that? Also, the "Bass" control is on playback, not >>record. The lo record EQ is usually fixed, but adjustable on playback. >
Well I'm just relaying what he told me. I actually got him to confirm at the > time that it had Bass Mid and High, because it seemed surprising to me too. > I'll check up on that though - he has the manual and full schematics.
Going from memory, I think that machine had a Hi-EQ pot for H-M-L. H-M-L, related to hi speed, medium speed, and lo speed. That's probably what you are referring to.
EricK wrote:> Going from memory, I think that machine had a Hi-EQ pot for H-M-L. > H-M-L, related to hi speed, medium speed, and lo speed. That's probably > what you are referring to.
It has "REPRO EQ" with an "H, M, L" pot and "REC EQ" with an "H-M-L" pot. These are referring to playback and record Hi freq. EQ for high, medium, and low, speeds.
Gareth Magennis 17 December 2005 19:40:52 [ permanent link ]
"EricK" <eric@raw-tracks.com> wrote in message news:Y3Xof.9276$ES.799@fe05.lga...> EricK wrote:>> Going from memory, I think that machine had a Hi-EQ pot for H-M-L. H-M-L, >> related to hi speed, medium speed, and lo speed. That's probably what you >> are referring to.>
It has "REPRO EQ" with an "H, M, L" pot and "REC EQ" with an "H-M-L" pot. > These are referring to playback and record Hi freq. EQ for high, medium, > and low, speeds.>
Ah ha! C'mon Arnie, we need you to jump in here and explain about sighted listening tests etc. ;)
Gareth Magennis 17 December 2005 19:50:34 [ permanent link ]
"EricK" <eric@raw-tracks.com> wrote in message news:yfXof.9277$ES.7729@fe05.lga...> Gareth Magennis wrote:>
Ah ha! C'mon Arnie, we need you to jump in here and explain about >> sighted listening tests etc. ;)>
Ahhh...What? Not sure what this means??>
--
Sorry, I meant that maybe my friend thought he was adjusting Bass, Mid and Treble controls when clearly he wasn't. Arnie will gladly tell you all about sighted listening tests vs AXB comparrisons, and that this is an example of the flaws inherrent in the former.
Gareth Magennis wrote:> Sorry, I meant that maybe my friend thought he was adjusting Bass, Mid and > Treble controls when clearly he wasn't. Arnie will gladly tell you all > about sighted listening tests vs AXB comparrisons, and that this is an > example of the flaws inherrent in the former.
Also, I'm a doltz - the MX5050 i'm referring to is a 1/2" 2-track> machine... So with more space per track on the 2-track does that swing> the favor in its direction?
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